tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post115506397802598365..comments2024-02-13T08:45:20.455-05:00Comments on The Schooley Files: Turtles All the Way Down Scot McKnight's Critique of Heretic's Guide to EternityKeith Edwin Schooleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06328169815024415532noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-1155195908269255852006-08-10T03:45:00.000-04:002006-08-10T03:45:00.000-04:00Bob--I think that "emerging" and "postmodern" have...Bob--<BR/><BR/>I think that "emerging" and "postmodern" have <I>become</I> trendy, but I'm not sure that's all there is to it, or was to it, in the beginning. I do understand the impulse not to want to be labeled and pigeonholed, but at some point I would think that people would <I>want</I> to be able to explain what they're all about. Maybe I'm just not reading in the right places.Keith Schooleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078256877683382439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-1155149445518205852006-08-09T14:50:00.000-04:002006-08-09T14:50:00.000-04:00Hi, Spencer! Welcome to my little corner of cybers...Hi, Spencer! Welcome to my little corner of cyberspace.<BR/><BR/>I did indeed get a chance to read more of the discussion on Scot's blog. I liked the fact very much that people could disagree heartily without the discussion degenerating into some of the ugly stuff you so often see on the web. I would also like to read your book sometime if I get the opportunity.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your affirmation of the Trinity, as well as the validity of looking at God from the standpoint of the One God apart from the three persons. Indeed, this *is* Trinitarianism; if we can't do that then we are either tritheists or Arians. I don't actually know, based on what you wrote, whether you regard the Trinitarian "persons" as objectively existing, or whether you simply see them as three ways of perceiving God. But I'm willing to leave that quibble alone for the moment.<BR/><BR/>For me, however, there are two separate questions: whether we affirm the "persons" of the Trinity, and whether we regard the unified God Himself as "personal." Based on what Scot wrote--and he may have misunderstood you here--you seem to oppose "person" and "spirit": "seeing God as spirit more than person." It seems to me that the biblical portrait of God is always personal, regardless of whether we are considering Him from the standpoint of a particular member of the Trinity or from the standpoint of the One God. He may be more than a person--"superpersonal" if you like--but He is never less. The One God encompasses the three Persons. I'm not sure what is gained by opposing "spirit" to "person"; He is both spirit (not physical, omnipresent) and a person (capable of volition, thought, action, love, and relationship). Anything less than this is less than the Biblical conception of God.<BR/><BR/>My post had less to do with your own particular views than it had to do with my frustration at trying to comprehend the emerging movement. It seems to me that even the attempt to do so is usually dismissed as a "modernist" impulse. From my point of view, the emerging movement, which prides itself on inclusivism, actually erects barriers to keep people out, and one of those barriers is a refusal to commit to shared commond ground with other Christians.Keith Schooleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078256877683382439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-1155089851186552062006-08-08T22:17:00.000-04:002006-08-08T22:17:00.000-04:00The more I look at it, the more it seems that "eme...The more I look at it, the more it seems that "emergent" is just a trendy term that everybody wants to be associated with, but everyone who uses the term has a different definition of what it means. The same thing seems to be true for "post-modern" folks. I've never understood why anyone would want to associate themselves with a term they can't define.<BR/><BR/>Being open to people who have doubts is fine, but it seems many who call themselves "emergent" are celebrating doubt as something to be sought after.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-1155084178860595062006-08-08T20:42:00.000-04:002006-08-08T20:42:00.000-04:00Keith, You ask "Is there any positive content to t...Keith, <BR/><BR/>You ask "Is there any positive content to the emerging conversation? Or is it all simply rejection?" <BR/><BR/>I hope you get a chance to read the discussion on Scots blog and see how the conversation developed. If you didn’t get a chance to read the rest of the comments here is one I posted in response to Scots comments.<BR/><BR/>FROM MY POST ON SCOTS BLOG TODAY<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your words and time you have devoted to this discussions. I have enjoyed the time we have been able to share here at the “Garage” and a couple of times on the phone. I have much respect for you and your responsibility as a instructor.<BR/><BR/>May a say up front I do not deny the Trinity as you quoted from the book above “Instead, he is a panentheist — which means that “God is ‘in all,’ alongside my creedal view of God as Father, Son, and Spirit” (195).” <BR/><BR/>When Father is used in scripture and prayer, etc. I see God much in the same way as you would - personal, with the best characteristics of a father, Son the same - as a son of the father and the incarnational image of God here on earth as God in Flesh and Holy Spirit as personally guiding me, comforting me and leading / convicting me in truth. I assume this would fit (at least loosely) in your “creedal” view of the Trinity. May I add this is a very dear part of my belief and I thought stating “along side my creedal view” would make that clear. <BR/><BR/>The context for the subsection of the book focuses not on a denial of the Trinity but the question of how do we deal with the passages where God is not identified with one of these personal roles (Father, Son or Holy Spirit) but only as God. Do you equate God as Father, as the default? That is the way I used to think of God, but now I see the potential of both a Trinitarian creed along with a panentheist view. What if when scripture refers to God as “God” we begin to see God not as anyone of the three but wholly and completely all three and other. I don’t believe there are 4 persons to the trinity but I do see 4 ways of looking at the person and work of God - Father, Son, Holy Spirit AND God.<BR/><BR/>_________________________________<BR/><BR/>Thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope we will all take the time to read, listen question and then make a judgement. If you get a chance to read the book for yourself, I would enjoy hearing your reactions as well.spencerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16806646921755534782noreply@blogger.com