tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post162716004963240443..comments2024-02-13T08:45:20.455-05:00Comments on The Schooley Files: All the Lonely PeopleKeith Edwin Schooleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06328169815024415532noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-34619184379120202022007-08-28T00:40:00.000-04:002007-08-28T00:40:00.000-04:00Exactly!MichaelExactly!<BR/><BR/>Michaelhillschurchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11580362077503241952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-76132688352962021272007-08-27T19:37:00.000-04:002007-08-27T19:37:00.000-04:00I think there's a lot of truth to what you say, Mi...I think there's a lot of truth to what you say, Michael. Besides the different ways in which men and women naturally "shop," I think there's also another aspect. I think that men tend to be afraid that once they say that they may be interested in a more-than-friendship relationship, they will never be able to break it off without being considered a dogmeat slimeball, not only by that woman, but by every other woman in her social circle. This is incentive not to express any romantic interest at all unless the guy is more or less ready to propose.Keith Schooleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078256877683382439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-32639602409359912522007-08-27T11:35:00.000-04:002007-08-27T11:35:00.000-04:00I thought I’d wade in with another comment. Keith...I thought I’d wade in with another comment. Keith you said: “But few things are more frustrating to a man than to invest a lot of time, effort, and emotion into a potential relationship, only to be told, "It was all in your head."<BR/><BR/>First of all I think this is true for women as well (which you said or at least implied).<BR/>Secondly, that comment made me think that men approach relationships with the #4 scenario because they want to look and see and make sure before they commit (sometimes even before the first date because a date would communicate intention when only interest is intended). If it were possible I think men would like to know everything about a woman before he even talked to her for the first time. I think women really enjoy exploring the relationship through the dating and conversations (the “dance”). In some ways it’s like shopping (I hope I’m not being too simplistic or crass here). Women like to browse and try things on and even buy an item to bring it home and see how it feels to own it or how it matches with the other things in their closet. And if they don’t like it will return it. In that way women like to try on a relationship to see if it fits into their lives. <BR/><BR/>However, men don’t shop, they buy. If we can continue the metaphor I don’t think they/we like to have such a close relationship with something/someone we know we are going to “return” (except for the sleezebags – is that a word? – who just want to use women). I think men like to do their research, almost anonymously, check things out and then once they are convinced to part with their money then they decide to buy. In relationships, I think some men would prefer to get to know a woman anonymously (I know that sounds like an oxymoron), get all the facts, see if it’s worthwhile and then take the plunge. So “seeing what develops” is a safe way for men to get to know a woman to help decide if it is worth pursuing the relationship.<BR/><BR/>What do you think?<BR/>Michaelhillschurchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11580362077503241952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-73468176389025670892007-08-25T23:19:00.000-04:002007-08-25T23:19:00.000-04:00Thank you, Naomi. I'm very gratified; I actually e...Thank you, Naomi. I'm very gratified; I actually expected you or Julie or some other woman happening by to be offended at my candor. I'm grateful that my musings seem to be being taken in the spirit in which they were intended.<BR/><BR/>You're right; it is a mystery. I can't tell you, for the life of me, how I was an utter failure at dating for years and then ended up with one of the most successful marriages I've ever known. (I was a pastor for a while. You learn waaaay too much about people.....) I remember Cecile and me just looking at each other, asking each other, "What are we doing right?" I wish everyone could have what we have.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate Julie's and your candor and openness in getting the ball rolling. Too much communication between men and women is bitter finger-pointing. You two set the right tone for honest dialogue from the outset. Thank you.Keith Schooleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078256877683382439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-63846662491796830062007-08-25T18:05:00.000-04:002007-08-25T18:05:00.000-04:00Keith,Thanks for sharing your insight here. I've ...Keith,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for sharing your insight here. I've really enjoyed reading your posts and the discussions that have followed. Fascinating stuff. <BR/><BR/>Julie and I have had this conversation many times and, in the end, I always come to the same conclusion: it's a mystery. Love is a mystery. Romance is a mystery. Attraction is a mystery. Relationships (how they start, when they "develop" or transition) are a mystery. The more experience I have (or do NOT have) with them, the more I realize that they are an act of God: His way, His timing, His orchestrating, His revealing. At least that's how I hope it goes in my life. I've always wanted it to be up to Him, so I guess I'll just keep waiting. And reading your post. :)<BR/><BR/>Thanks again for the great insight.<BR/><BR/>--NaomiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-90314733995570166472007-08-18T15:06:00.000-04:002007-08-18T15:06:00.000-04:00I acknowledge with shame that I actually had to lo...I acknowledge with shame that I actually had to look up "Mr. Darcy" in Wikipedia to remember. English degree, yes, but Honors English, where you could focus on what you wanted and ignore what you wanted. I was all Faulkner and T.S. Eliot and Kafka and Dostoevski.Keith Schooleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078256877683382439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-91005086659039900682007-08-18T14:52:00.000-04:002007-08-18T14:52:00.000-04:00Mr. Darcy.There's your answer.Not sure of the exac...Mr. Darcy.<BR/><BR/>There's your answer.<BR/><BR/>Not sure of the exact question, but that's the answer.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03485064471916748455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-25303657377836669202007-08-17T17:16:00.000-04:002007-08-17T17:16:00.000-04:00Julie,I was rereading our discussion, and noticed ...Julie,<BR/><BR/>I was rereading our discussion, and noticed your last question: "Does the guy decide when #4 'develops'? It seems like it, from the list." Well, you said you wanted guys to do the initiating. Do you, really?<BR/><BR/>:-)Keith Schooleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078256877683382439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-46289402091549872322007-08-17T05:49:00.000-04:002007-08-17T05:49:00.000-04:00I think I do get what you're saying. I suppose we'...I think I do get what you're saying. I suppose we're back to the emerging picture and connecting the dots. I used to complain that women immediately put me in the "friend" category and I could never get out of if after that; I now see that maybe it was because the signals I was giving merely meant friendship to them.<BR/><BR/>But I see your dilemma. Either way things work out, it gets interpreted as your fault. But there are two types of people in this world: blame-absorbers and blame-deflectors. I'm guessing you're a blame-absorber (me too--and btw, I don't know if this is really true or only Keith-true: I'm making it up off the cuff as I go along.) Some people will always blame the other person if a relationship goes wrong; some people will internalize the blame. And if you think about it, many women cry when they're angry; many men yell when they're hurt. Therein lies a tale.<BR/><BR/>I guess my problem is this: when a guy is going for level 4, in his mind, <I>he is already showing some romantic interest</I>. (You are now armed with this dangerous knowledge. Please use it for good.) I'm really not sure what he is to do beyond that, short of making a declaration of love upon introduction, which we all know drops him immediately into the "creep" status, which is <I>even worse</I> than the "just friends" status. I guess guys don't know how to walk this tightrope any better than women do.<BR/><BR/>But few things are more frustrating to a man than to invest a lot of time, effort, and emotion into a potential relationship, only to be told, "It was all in your head." (Pretty much what happened to me with "cry on the shoulder" girl.) The subsequent effect of that is to make a man less, not more, willing to declare any intentions up front, since <I>it was at the point of declaring intentions that the house of cards collapsed</I>.<BR/><BR/>As far as you sending signals, about the only thing I can suggest is simply be true to yourself. If you're attracted and feel there's potential there, and the guy seems interested in you for you, then act that way. If you're not attracted or you don't see potential, you may want to try to keep things at the tennis-buddy stage from the get-go. The second guy can't accuse you (plausibly, anyway) of leading him on. The first guy may accuse you of reading into it, but if he truly was pursuing a closer-than-typical-guy-friendship, it's a good bet that he just got cold feet for some reason, and that you were not wrong.<BR/><BR/>Guard your heart, but try not to become hardened. That's the dilemma we all face, isn't it?Keith Schooleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078256877683382439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-68961767896327018132007-08-16T17:35:00.000-04:002007-08-16T17:35:00.000-04:00"...and see where things might develop."You might ..."...and see where things might develop."<BR/><BR/>You might think I'm kidding, but I don't get this phrase.<BR/><BR/>Not sure how to put it...<BR/><BR/>This is the catch; I hinted at it a bit on my site when I said something along the lines of not investing the wrong kind of emotion into something that was never intended to be that.<BR/><BR/>It might be fine for a guy to mosey along and "see what develops" but if I see this as something that is going to be a friendship like with my female friends, I start treating him as such. Not badly, but...platonic, like my female friends. To me, that is me not being a "tease." It seems smart.<BR/><BR/>"He's not interested in me romantically, but as a friend. So I'll be a friend."<BR/><BR/>So the guy is thinking #4, let's say, thinking this is a friendship that might develop into something else. When he finally decides to up the step of development, it's going to catch me off gaurd. I hadn't realized I should be thinking of him like that.<BR/><BR/>Maybe that ties into the "be persistant" point on the original post about...catching a woman off guard.<BR/><BR/>"Seeing what might develop" is sort of problematic, at least for me, because I don't want to give off wrong signals as well as find myself completely foolish thinking it was romantic when it wasn't.<BR/><BR/>I'm a tease. I gave off the wrong signals. I led him on. He got burned again. Women are horrible.<BR/><BR/>Or,<BR/><BR/>He never said we were more than friends. I read into it. I was foolish. It's my fault.<BR/><BR/>I don't function much on a "see what develops" level, which is a problem in more than this area. Because of that, the other person is always going to decide when something new does develop, and I'm not going to understand this.<BR/><BR/>I don't know. Does the guy decide when #4 "develops"? It seems like it, from the list.<BR/><BR/>Hmm. Rambling. But do you get what I'm saying? Thoughts on that?Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03485064471916748455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-71917869177893055182007-08-16T16:31:00.000-04:002007-08-16T16:31:00.000-04:00Thanks for your input, Bob. I sure know I'm not "t...Thanks for your input, Bob. I sure know I'm not "typical" (whatever that means). So corroboration is helpful. Ultimately, that's the only way to know if something is really true or only Keith-true. :-)Keith Schooleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078256877683382439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-27094399961544289072007-08-16T16:28:00.000-04:002007-08-16T16:28:00.000-04:00Thanks, Julie.I think the stuff about men's friend...Thanks, Julie.<BR/><BR/>I think the stuff about men's friendships is more or less universal. But since I was always the head-over-heels guy and not the scared-to-death-to-get-into-a-relationship guy, I suppose I'm guessing a bit about that part of it.<BR/><BR/>Another aspect, which I'm sure you already know, is that many men are intimidated by intelligent and articulate women. But intelligent and articulate women shouldn't want that kind of guy anyway, so it all works out.<BR/><BR/>It's been a pleasure discussing this stuff. You've helped me hone my own ideas. I respect your transparency in getting the ball rolling.Keith Schooleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078256877683382439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-72957810321436204532007-08-16T10:34:00.000-04:002007-08-16T10:34:00.000-04:00Fantastic post. I couldn't agree more with your co...Fantastic post. I couldn't agree more with your conclusion. As I've mentioned before on your blog (or mine, I don't remember), I think the whole search for the "one person God has for me" is hogwash. Marriages work because two people are committed to sacrificially loving each other, not because they're perfectly compatible with each other.<BR/><BR/>In regards to male/female friendships I think your analysis is spot-on. Guys, unlike girls, don't generally pursue friendship for friendship's sake. Male friendships develop out of a pursuit of something else, whether it be hobbies, career, marriage, and yes, sex. Guys don't just "hang out", they get together to achieve a goal, however trivial that goal may be. Girls (like my wife) will just get together just to be together, no agenda.<BR/><BR/>"You're babblin'."<BR/>~Annabelle in "Maverick"Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16914401032087512202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-80791952798673832612007-08-16T10:12:00.000-04:002007-08-16T10:12:00.000-04:00(So, is this true, or Keith-true?)Sorry. I'm just ...(So, is this true, or Keith-true?)<BR/><BR/>Sorry. I'm just wondering.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03485064471916748455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18950992.post-26414454307398444752007-08-16T10:03:00.000-04:002007-08-16T10:03:00.000-04:00Well.That was...excellent.Wow, Keith.Well.<BR/><BR/>That was...excellent.<BR/><BR/>Wow, Keith.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03485064471916748455noreply@blogger.com